Author Topic: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)  (Read 2197 times)

Squiggle Dog

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Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« on: November 20, 2018, 09:02:14 PM »
I'm looking for a non-rusty W111 230S sedan, preferably with sunroof (but I may have access to a sunroof top that's for sale if the car is otherwise suitable). In a perfect world it would be black or brown and a late 1967 or 1968 production date and has a manual column shift steering column with the thick steering wheel hub. Condition of the drivetrain or interior is not important because the plan is to put a turbo diesel engine in it and I have a decent interior already. I would drive the car as a daily driver and then eventually use the rusty Universal wagon I have to convert it to a wagon.

I'm not looking for a restored or running vehicle as I can't afford it and it would be a shame to modify one of them, anyway. I'm in Surprise, Arizona, but willing to have it transported from out of state depending on circumstances.

I'm willing to consider all fintail wagons, though importing one from another country is likely to be too expensive.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:26:09 PM by Squiggle Dog »
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

waltklatt

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 09:07:05 AM »
Hmm, Arizona is where you're located.
Maybe the next state over in NM, Albuquerque, along some industrial area road, I passed a 1966 or 1967 230 right handed 230 fintail wagon(IMA) about 20 years ago in black.
Wonder if it's still there.
There were also two wagons(IMA) in a Pa junkyard near Stroudsburg also about 15 years ago.
Perhaps those two are still there.
But they are around.
Just that I'm not much of an active junkyard dog anymore, marriage and old age.
Would love a W114/115 wagon.
Walter

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 01:04:39 PM »
Hmm, Arizona is where you're located.
Maybe the next state over in NM, Albuquerque, along some industrial area road, I passed a 1966 or 1967 230 right handed 230 fintail wagon(IMA) about 20 years ago in black.
Wonder if it's still there.
There were also two wagons(IMA) in a Pa junkyard near Stroudsburg also about 15 years ago.
Perhaps those two are still there.
But they are around.
Just that I'm not much of an active junkyard dog anymore, marriage and old age.
Would love a W114/115 wagon.
Walter

No kidding? I would also be curious if the black one is still around. I know about two that were in a junkyard in Georgia. One of them was a W111 (attached) and apparently sold for only $1,500. I would have bought it in a heartbeat, even with the rust issues because it's not as far gone as mine and I think new floors and rockers would have just about done it. I think the seller (Chris Fett) had a W110 also, but I haven't seen pictures of it and think it's gone by now.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 01:06:35 PM by Squiggle Dog »
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Squiggle Dog

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 12:43:51 AM »
Well, darn... I keep coming at dead ends with my car searches. I had a Euro-spec W111 230S with a sunroof lined up. The valuable parts had already been sold (Euro headlights and taillights, grille, radiator, carburetors and manifolds, some bumper and a bunch of interior parts), and it was pretty trashed, but looked like it had a decent body. No title, and the seller inherited it and wasn't sure what to ask for it. Well, they eventually stopped responding to my messages, so I guess that deal is off.

Someone contacted me who had a right hand drive W110 chassis Universal and parts. They didn't know what to ask for it and were looking for offers. Eventually they stopped responding to my emails until tonight, when they stated they decided they want to clean it up, get it running, and list it on an auction site for top dollar. Darn.

The same people have a 1967 230S with sunroof they are selling, but it looks like it has a lot of body filler flaking off with heavy rust underneath. It looks to me like a real rustbucket that someone patched up and now the rust is coming back through. Since the car is out of state, I can't really justify inspecting it beforehand either, because I'm too convinced I won't like what I see.

They also have a W111 220SE with a ragtop, but the top has been open to the weather and the interior is full of snow. I prefer the steel roof and a later model year, anyway.

It's discouraging. Either I find the right car and the seller stops communicating or is too busy to sell the car, or it's way too rusty, it's in much too nice of condition for me to afford, or it's a W110 chassis or a 220S/SE. I really think I want to stick with a 230S for my build. What's sad is I know for a fact that there are people hoarding yards full of suitable cars, but none of them are willing to let anything go, for whatever reason.

I'd definitely buy a W111 wagon, even if it was rusty, as long as it would only take a little panel replacement. But, I have less of a chance at finding one of those than I do a 230S sedan.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 12:45:40 AM by Squiggle Dog »
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 01:35:37 PM »
Ditch the Flosse and search for a W108. ;D ;D The problem with Flossen they have been all bought up by the Germans or went to the Middle East for parts. Even a good W114/115 are harder to find these days.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 01:38:51 PM by Evlkarl »

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 02:02:45 PM »
Nah, I need a W111 to make into a wagon. There are plenty still left in the USA, but most are kept by hoarders who think they are doing the community a favor by buying them all up/taking them off people's hands and then letting them set around for decades and won't sell any of them. I guess it's a case of "he who dies with the most toys wins" and then the cars all get crushed by surviving relatives or realtors because it's junk in their eyes and they want to sell the property.

I remember watching a video on YouTube only a few years ago about a wrecking yard in California that was owned by a Mercedes wrecker and when he passed away, everything was crushed, and it shows them crushing several nice complete fintails with Euro headlights and all.

But, you're right that there certainly aren't as many left available from private owners. And then when you do find them, they never respond to their ads, or they stop responding eventually, not even letting you know if you did something to offend them.
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 06:46:51 PM »
Remember Tristar Pete over in Tempe back in days of the 202 (now Tempe Market Place) I bought MB parts from him back in the days when I still was living in Kansas City. City of Tempe came in one day  force him to sell because the wanted to develop the land. Pete had so many Flossen Sl and other Mercedes most of them went into the crusher. Rumor has it he even crushed a couple of 300SL,s cause he run out of time. Ah the good old days are long gone to find plenty of Bodies and Parts. :( :(

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 07:17:33 PM »
Scott, speaking of Auctions look what I just found ( no not Mercedes but Porsche 911) look at the list of old cars proves the point you made. This Auction will be a madhouse.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/porsche-only-auction/6746309679.html

Squiggle Dog

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 07:35:17 PM »
Daniel, that's unreal. It really irks me to hear stories like that.

I wonder what the owner of all those Porsches planned to do with them. I guess some people don't plan, though, they just have an impulse to buy everything and keep it for themselves.
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Squiggle Dog

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 07:40:02 PM »
Here's the latest update: there is a Euro-spec W111 230S with a sunroof I mentioned previously. It has no title and has already been parted out, so a lot of the good parts are gone. I've been texting the seller for over a month now and asking for some pictures of the rust-prone areas of the car. So, finally I asked if I could just inspect the car myself (even though it's out of state). I kept getting vague responses or none at all. I would call and it would go straight to voicemail and I'd get no calls back.

Finally today I got a text that read, "Sorry the lady who was selling it decided to go a different direction", whatever that means. I asked, "It didn't get scrapped, did it?" and got no response. People kill me.
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 07:43:22 PM »
Maybe he was a Hoarder had plans to restore them pass them on to the Grand kids  use it as retirement fond or just passed way you really never know   but when you look at the inventory so far and the barn it is filled with Porsche 911 Stuff  whoever owns it will have a fantastic pay day 4 sure.

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 07:45:16 PM »
Scott that sucks let,s hope it did not go to the crusher. People are weird specially the once on CL.

waltklatt

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2018, 09:43:40 AM »
Scott,
You mentioned that you prefer a late model W111 sedan, because of the brakes.
I have a 230SL that originally has rear drum brakes, swapped out the rear axle to put disc brakes on, and it was not much of a job to do.
I'm pretty sure your W111 wagon has all the disc brakes?  Right? So that's another part you are saving from the original.  Both are pretty much bolt on with changes to brakes only.
I would simply take the best body you can find, forget the removable parts and use the body.
On my 67 200D IMA, the floors rockers were gone.
Simply got new parts from K&K MFG, and welded them in.
Not a lot of work, but with patience and right tools you can do it.
Also did a 66 Mustang convertible, nearly everything had to be replaced and I did all the welding, starting with the cowl box.
I know you have been looking for a long time, but keep looking.
Took me about 6 years to get my wagon, when it slipped through my fingers and then 2 years later popped up again at a junkyard, where I bought it.
Walter

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2018, 02:06:54 PM »
Scott,
You mentioned that you prefer a late model W111 sedan, because of the brakes.
I have a 230SL that originally has rear drum brakes, swapped out the rear axle to put disc brakes on, and it was not much of a job to do.
I'm pretty sure your W111 wagon has all the disc brakes?  Right? So that's another part you are saving from the original.  Both are pretty much bolt on with changes to brakes only.
I would simply take the best body you can find, forget the removable parts and use the body.
On my 67 200D IMA, the floors rockers were gone.
Simply got new parts from K&K MFG, and welded them in.
Not a lot of work, but with patience and right tools you can do it.
Also did a 66 Mustang convertible, nearly everything had to be replaced and I did all the welding, starting with the cowl box.
I know you have been looking for a long time, but keep looking.
Took me about 6 years to get my wagon, when it slipped through my fingers and then 2 years later popped up again at a junkyard, where I bought it.
Walter

I wish my Universal was a W111, because then I'd just get a bunch of patch panels (assuming they're any good) and fix it up. But, since I want to convert it to a W111, I figured why not find one that's not rusty and then that will convert my Universal to a W111 and won't need a bunch of patch panels.

Ideally I'd like a 1967 or 1968 W111 (230S) because I want to end up with a fintail that has all the updates. Even between the 1965 and earlier 220S/SE and the 1966-1968 230S, there are lots of subtle differences like the inner rockers having cutouts for added strength and the seat height adjustment, slightly different wire harness and connector styles, different placement of things on the firewall, bowed heater pipe on the firewall to compensate for more engine clearance--things a person might not even realize at first. I know the headlight portion of the wire harness in my Universal will need to be altered as it's not long enough to reach the longer W111 fenders and there may be other parts of the W111 wire harness I would need.

My W110 Universal is a 1967, and it does have most of the updated parts that I could use (disc front, and drum rear--some early cars have drums on all four wheels--eventually I would want four wheel discs with larger W108 discs up front). But, I had some hope of getting a W111 running and driving with the diesel engine, working out the bugs, and enjoying it as a daily driver until I felt brave enough to do the wagon conversion. I also planned on using the title from the W111 because I think it would be goofy to have a W111 wagon with a W110 title and the VIN plate not matching the number stamped on the inner fender. It would probably also be goofy having, say, a 1964 title but then having all the updates that were available in 1968 at end of production.

I don't really want to end up with a rusty W111, to where I have to convert it to a wagon, and then also replace a whole bunch of the lower part of the car, anyway. Maybe I could just get a non-rusty earlier W111 (like from 1963-on because it has the firewall set up for disc brakes) and use it and then get new inner rockers with the cut-out for the seat height adjustment, and graft in the headlight portion of the wire harness. The title would still be goofed up a bit, though, because it would either be a 1967 W110 (while actually being a W111), or it would be a 1964/whatever W111 when in reality it has all the 1968 updates. Eh, I dunno.

Having the early style (1959-1963) brake master cylinder would actually work in my favor because then the brake booster wouldn't be in the way of where the oil filter housing on the OM617 turbo diesel engine goes. But, I would have to somehow figure out how to make that configuration work with dual circuit disc brake system, and I hear the remote boosters can be terribly expensive to repair.

Otherwise, my plan was to either relocate the oil filter housing, or use a naturally aspirated OM617 from a W115, which has the oil filter mounted under the car, and then using a turbo head and turbo on it, with turbo pistons and crank if needed.
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1967 W110 230 Universal Wagon Project
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel 346,000

Evlkarl

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Re: Wanted: W111 230S Sedan (Or Wagon)
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 03:03:12 PM »
Scott they are still out there you might have to import a Hurst from German or drive it back from Germany thru Russia Alaska etc etc.







https://oldtimer-veranstaltung.de/2012/02/mercedes-benz-230s-universal/

here is a good spotter link

https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/



https://bringatrailer.com/2009/10/12/family-schlepper-1967-mercedes-230-fintail-wagon/